2 replies to this topic

[Con-El]

This is just a long-winded rant.. be warned..



So, after watching The Dark Knight again I've had an epiphany.

An no, it's not - nor will it ever be: Christian Bale's voice as Batman isn't that unbearable. Because it is, an it always will be. In fact it's so horrible I'm forever greatful that after 'The Dark Knight Rises' I will no longer have to listen to it.

But back on track...

My epiphany is simply thus: The Joker is not only the moral center out of the trio (Joker, Batman and Harvey/Two-Face) but he is also the most certain, unquestionable, dependable and consistent character out of the three. The Joker is the only person who not only stays true to his code through-out the film, but he never even questions his beliefs or wavers from them slightly.

The movie is supposedly stating that human nature is not so bad and that the Joker is wrong about how despicable society is. That the light will break through even the darkest of nights and that good will triumph over evil. But ask yourself honestly, is that the image that really comes across?

The whole movie, as if by accident, seems dedicated to proving the Joker right about society and showing that only he had anything resembling a consistent moral code. And for those of you who are thinking: "Are you fucking crazy?!" ... No I am not (though unlike Sheldon my mother never had me tested). But perhaps you're wondering if I'm crazy because you recall the boat scene. Well, if you think that the boat scene actually proves the Joker wrong about humanity/society, then I command you to watch the scene again... That's right, command.

During the scene the police/military/whatever - our representation of 'good/moral/justice' and the civilians - our representation of 'innocent' are even less moral, than the death row criminal, who is the one who actually does the right thing. The police/army/whatever may seem as though they are trying to maintain control and warn the prisoners to stay back because they dont want the prisoners to blow up the other ship, but do they throw away the detonator? Something that would prevent this? No. Hell they even hand it over thinking the prisoner will detonate the other ship and that will somehow clear their conscience.

The 'innocents' actually take the time to discuss it and put it to a vote citing that the people on the other ship have 'had their chance and wasted it' yet none of them seem too concerned about the police/military/ship crew. To me, that scene just further represents and supports the Joker’s worldview of society being populated by unreliable, hypocritical frauds. It's the murderer that actually does the 'right' thing and shows that he has the greatest conscience. No, the fact that the civilians didn't blow up the other ship doesn't count in their favour, they would have done it as the majority of voters revealed but none of them had the guts to do it. Probably because they realized they might end up on death-row themselves... that's not an actual defense/point in their favour.

Oh wait, I hear some of you saying/thinking (that's right, I heard you think...all Charles Xavier like...) 'But Batman doesn’t kill!' Surely this is evidence that he is clearly morally superior to the Joker and that it also proves the Joker wrong. In fact you point out that Batman actually risks his life to 'save' the Joker from death as if this is some moral victory. Which MIGHT have been a good point... yanno... had Batman not killed Two-Face about ten movie-minutes later. Oh, an this is the guy who also allowed Ra's to die in the first film.. "I'm not going to kill you but I don't have to save you either.." remember that line? Yeah, that's effectively killing him.

Then again, this is a guy whose best idea for concealing his identity is talking in guttural gibberish.

This is a fucking billionaire genius with unlimited funds and tech at his disposal and his best idea was to talk three octaves lower?!? Get a fucking voice modulator and work it into your cowl.. hell Green Arrow even managed this in Smallville and it worked fine.

Now sure, the popular argument is "But these movies are about realism..." yeah, because a Billionaire playboy vanishing to travel the world and become a vigilante/ninja/tracker/protector of a city by dressing up as a Bat (because they scare him and he wants to scare others) and literally punching the crime/corruption of his city in the face each night as a form of 'justice' is REALLY a story that's concerned with realism.

Hell, the boat scene I mentioned earlier is an example of how unrealistic the movie is - so it actually fails in two aspects... http://en.wikipedia....eriment#Results

Or what about the fact that in the first movie the 'Bad guys' use a 'weaponized microwave emitter' to evaporate the water supply in Gotham... but the humans standing right next to it are completely fine...

If you want to ignore that then let's consider that the power and communication with both boats go off and the Military/Police/Whatever on shore are aware of this and are aware that one boat has a load of Mafia/criminals on board... yet no Coast guard or rescue boat shows up to investigate? Not even Joe the fisherman in a dingy?

~*~

For me the message in the movie is that the average person who follows the rules or is in charge of enforcing them, when under pressure, is at the end of the day no morally better than your worst death row murderer. So even though the Joker 'lost' because the ships didn’t blow up, he has still been proven right when it comes to his views on society/humanity and he actually won, he just wasn't made aware of it.

An for those of you that still disagree with me in saying that the Joker is the moral center/most dependable character out of the trio... well: Our 'hero' Batman is weak and indecisive. He allows others to die on his watch regularly, he agonizes over every decision and he even tries to steal a man's fiancé, a man he claims to admire no less.

Harvey Dent, our 'White Knight' is supposedly such a beacon of integrity and hope, yet he immediately becomes a psychotic mass murderer and attempted child killer after his fiancé dies and he gets burned. Not only that, but even before his accident he seems to enjoy (or at least get a high out of) manipulating people using deception and misdirection by using his trick coin to assume control over a situation while trying to pass himself off as a free-spirited character that allows fate to dictate his life.

Hell, to step outside our trio, not even the citizens of Gotham (the representation of 'us'/'society') are a true representation of morally strong characters, in fact, they seem all too willing, during several moments of the movie, to play Joker's 'game'.

Now I'm not saying the Joker's morals are great.. Just that they're far more dependable then either Batman or Harvey/Two-Face.

In my mind though Commissioner James 'Jim' Gordon is the actual 'hero'/'good' character of the story and the only 'good' character whose morals don't stray into darkness

/rant

[Darren]

The Joker is unflagging in his convictions because he is a fanatic. He is also pathological. (That means he is a slave to his compulsions... morality does not enter into it). It's also loading the equation to throw Harvey Dent in there. He's Two-Face. Of course he's going to be inconsistent.

The moral center of that movie is Lucius Fox.

[Dark Knight]

I like how you misunderstood the boat scene.

No one is saying everyone is as ultimately good as Batman. The boat scene is about averages. If you gave everyone's goodness a numerical value and averaged them, Batman argues that this average would be higher than what Joker argues it would be. No one in the movie is omnisicient.

But Darren's still right.